Something has to change

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 07:49 AM

Like many are saying over at BS, a home win, an away win against a plummeting LA side and a recent tie because of a phantom handball call doesn't change much.

Some are saying it just prolongs the inevitable...

It certainly doesn't change the outcome of the original poll. One home win in four.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

It certainly doesn't change the outcome of the original poll. One home win in four.

Do away wins not count for anything? Why weren't they addressed in the poll? Is it because no one thought we would have any? If you look at the poll, it talks about 5 games. In those 5 games, RSL has gone 2-2-1. They have 2 wins and a tie over those 5 games, so I think that you are fudging the results of the poll a little bit to try and make your point. Shouldn't we look at all the facts rather than simply ignoring the ones that don't make your point look quite so good?

soccerman · 05-30-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

Do away wins not count for anything? Why weren't they addressed in the poll? Is it because no one thought we would have any? If you look at the poll, it talks about 5 games. In those 5 games, RSL has gone 2-2-1. They have 2 wins and a tie over those 5 games, so I think that you are fudging the results of the poll a little bit to try and make your point. Shouldn't we look at all the facts rather than simply ignoring the ones that don't make your point look quite so good?

The poll question was
"How many of the next 4 home matches will Ellinger have to win to avoid being sacked?"

I don't recall your outcry that away wins weren't included in the first place. Why they were or weren't is irrelevant. You my friend are the poll-fudger.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerman

The poll question was
"How many of the next 4 home matches will Ellinger have to win to avoid being sacked?"

So, away wins don't count for anything then? Why was it mentioned in the opening post at all then?

Quote:

I don't recall your outcry that away wins weren't included in the first place. Why they were or weren't is irrelevant. You my friend are the poll-fudger.

I didn't vote or even post on that thread. I thought the whole idea was silly. And it is even sillier now. The team has its first 3 game unbeaten streak in team history and you want to fire the coach now? They seemed to have turned a corner and even in their first couple of losses, they were never truly out of a game (except for the Chivas one). How well is Bob Bradley, the one everyone wanted to see replace Ellinger, doing with Chivas right now? Not much better. Or how about Mo Johnston? How is his team doing?

The team is making progress and seem to be getting better as the season goes on. We have gone 2-2-1 over the original games mentioned in the poll. Is .500 not good enough for an RSL coach to keep his job over that span of time? What would have been good enough then?

The whole idea that an expansion team 9 games into its second year should be anywhere but middle of the table, where we currently are, is wishful thinking. There have been a lot of expansion teams in all of the major sports here in the US. If expansion teams doing well is such a common occurrance, show me 8 of them that have been better than middle of the table in their second year. Surely in the many of teams you have to choose from, finding 8 shouldn't be that hard given the expectations you are putting on where you think RSL should be now.

soccerman · 05-30-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

Shouldn't we look at all the facts rather than simply ignoring the ones that don't make your point look quite so good?

This season 2-5-2
Alltime 7-27-7
Wins in the 2nd half of 2005 season 0

Aero · 05-30-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerman

This season 2-5-2

Last 3 games: 2-0-1
Last 5 games: 2-2-1

Quote:

Alltime 7-27-7

Again, I'm asking you to show me 8 expansion teams that are doing better than RSL's middle of the table a quarter of the way through their second year.

Quote:

Wins in the 2nd half of 2005 season 0

Bad teams are historically even worse in the last half of losing years. It's not uncommon for players to quit and stop playing. That's not always the coach's fault.

Many thought that he should have been fired for the direction the team was headed when it ended the year last year. Yet those same people demanding his head then don't want to look at the direction the team is currently headed. They would much rather focus on the past, especially the 2nd half of the 2005 season. That tends to tell the story they want told a little better than the current direction the team is going. When it suits their purpose, they trot out the direction of the team to justify firing him and then ignore the direction of the team when it doesn't suit their goal.

Again, and I don't think that many people remember this, RSL is an expansion team a quarter of the way through its 2nd season. Expansion teams aren't good historically. Neither one of them was any good last year and both of them are still struggling a little bit this year. Chivas isn't doing much if any better than us at all and they are on their third coach, the same one many wanted brought here, and have the highest payroll in the league. When you compare apples to apples (expansion teams in their second year) we aren't doing too badly.

Aerick · 05-30-2006, 12:53 PM

You go Aero! I got yo back!

Coach E is turning this club around in its second season. The play of the team bears that out. If we suck as badly after this year that we did last year, come and talk to me. Your poll didn't factor in an away win (because none of us thought that was going to happen), and yet it happened. Coach E is good in my book. None of my votes or posts have contradicted this point to my knowledge.

knowwonnose · 05-30-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

L
Again, I'm asking you to show me 8 expansion teams that are doing better than RSL's middle of the table a quarter of the way through their second year.

Don't ask that question, they'll start blowing smoke about other MLS teams that made the playoffs in their first year when in fact those were expansion teams in an "expansion" league. You're right with this point, but most people are too impatient for believe it.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerick

You go Aero! I got yo back!

Coach E is turning this club around in its second season. The play of the team bears that out. If we suck as badly after this year that we did last year, come and talk to me. Your poll didn't factor in an away win (because none of us thought that was going to happen), and yet it happened. Coach E is good in my book. None of my votes or posts have contradicted this point to my knowledge.

What will your views be in we don't qualify for the playoffs this year?

Aero · 05-30-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

What will your views be in we don't qualify for the playoffs this year?

My first reaction to this question is to say fire him, but I don't even think it will be as simple as that. If it ends up that we are competitive for the rest of the year, improve on our record from last year, and still end up missing the playoffs in a tight race, then I think things have to be looked at then.

If we end the year the same way we ended last year way out of the playoff picture, then I say fire him. But I think it is much too early with the team headed in a good direction to be calling for his head right now.

Okay, I answered your question (even though I know it wasn't aimed at me) so I'm asking one back: what will it take for you to modify your views on firing Ellinger? Is there anything he can do at all to change your mind or has he gone past the point of no return for you?