Something has to change

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

I think you're making your expectations too clear cut. We all want wins, but we must be flexible. Consider this: RSL goes 4-1-2 (W-T-L) leading up to the mid-point in the season. That makes them 6-2-2 in the 10 games prior to that point. A great record in any book, and still, according to your expectations, they will be less than 500 (6-3-7). We are still fans of a team that can only be expected to take steps toward greatness, not leaps into it.

Unless two or three teams become "whipping boys" for the league like RSL and Chivas were last year, only ~50% of teams will end the year with more wins than losses. Does this mean that by your expectations 50% of coaches should be fired?

I don't factor in ties when I calculate winning percentage, only wins and losses.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

It is reasonable to have a winning record and it is reasonable to qualify for the playoffs.

I mostly agree. I'm not sure if having a winning record is as important to me as making the playoffs. I think you can have a sub .500 record and still make the playoffs. For me it is more reasonable to expect RSL to be better than two other teams in the conference no matter what their win-loss record ends up being.

If at the end of the year we don't make the playoffs, we can have this discussion again. Until then, I don't see much point in it since we'll never know until then whether RSL is going to make the playoffs or not.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

I mostly agree. I'm not sure if having a winning record is as important to me as making the playoffs. I think you can have a sub .500 record and still make the playoffs. For me it is more reasonable to expect RSL to be better than two other teams in the conference no matter what their win-loss record ends up being.

If at the end of the year we don't make the playoffs, we can have this discussion again. Until then, I don't see much point in it since we'll never know until then whether RSL is going to make the playoffs or not.

The winning record relates to the product on the field. Qualifying for the playoffs relates to the product in the standings.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I don't factor in ties when I calculate winning percentage, only wins and losses.

He didn't either. 6-3-7 (W-T-L) is sub .500 going on wins and losses alone.

knowwonnose · 05-30-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I don't factor in ties when I calculate winning percentage, only wins and losses.

Still, RSL would be 6-7 in that scenario. By your reckoning, not good enough, but they would have 6 wins in 10 games. As good as DC and Dallas have done to this point in the season.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

The winning record relates to the product on the field. Qualifying for the playoffs relates to the product in the standings.

Except for the first game against Chivas, has the product on the field been that bad? Even all of the other losses were competitive and we only lost each game by one goal.

For me, the most reasonable expectation is that we be competitive with everyone else and except for one game this year, that has been the case. It's now to the point where I can go into games expecting that there is a good chance we can get a result, even on the road. I haven't had this feeling for...well, since the very beginning of last year. This team is competitive and can compete with just about everyone in MLS. Dallas only beat us by one in Dallas and killed NE by 4-0. For a second year team, I'm happy with competitive. For now, and I emphasize FOR NOW, that is reasonable to me. It's more than can be said of 75% of all of the other expansion teams in pro sports in their second year.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 02:33 PM

All I know is that presently 8 out of the 12 MLS teams presently have .500 records or better (including our opponent this Saturday).

Get a winning record and qualifying for the playoffs will take care of itself.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

All I know is that presently 8 out of the 12 MLS teams presently have .500 records or better (including our opponent this Saturday).

Get a winning record and qualifying for the playoffs will take care of itself.

And one of those teams, our opponent for this Saturday, only has 2 more points than us (possible 5 with their game in hand) despite having a .500 winning percentage compared to our .286 winning percentage. If New York wins their next game and we win our next game, we'll both have the same number of points despite New York having a .500 winning percentage and ours being .375.

You can't always base thing on winning percentage in MLS. It doesn't always paint an accurate picture.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

And one of those teams, our opponent for this Saturday, only has 2 more points than us (possible 5 with their game in hand) despite having a .500 winning percentage compared to our .286 winning percentage. If New York wins their next game and we win our next game, we'll both have the same number of points despite New York having a .500 winning percentage and ours being .375.

You can't always base thing on winning percentage in MLS. It doesn't always paint an accurate picture.

No, but it sure would make a difference in RSL's case...

knowwonnose · 05-30-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

All I know is that presently 8 out of the 12 MLS teams presently have .500 records or better (including our opponent this Saturday).

Get a winning record and qualifying for the playoffs will take care of itself.

Look at the history of the MLS. Without going through it again for you, you'll see that last year was an anomaly. Most seasons feature several teams in the playoff with loosing records. Still, you're side stepping the real issue which is that I think you are making arbitrary and unrealistic goals. Try enjoying the success the team is having and being hopeful that it will continue. Give your team the opportunity to be imprefect and realize that they will loose some along the way.

I think your favor for Man U many be tainting your feelings for RSL. Man U is always way above 500. Man U only looses a small handful of games each year. But the EPL is set up differently. We can expect that Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal will win most of their games, but we can't expect that in MLS. We have to realize that DC can loose to Chivas or to LA one week and still be the best team in their division. We can expect a team to struggle as RSL has, but that doesn't mean that they are much worse than all the other teams. RSL has only played one game that they were not in the game late with a chance of winning or drawing. I think your expectations are too high. Sort of like a Yankees fan wondering why there would be any fans of the Rockies.