We have got to behave

the cup · 03-08-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dysko

Well, the DesNews jumped on board on this one... read it here...

What a dumb article. He was trying to be funny by came across as stupid. What an ass.

Rover · 03-08-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the cup

What a dumb article. He was trying to be funny by came across as stupid. What an ass.

At least he's consistent.

Aero · 03-08-2005, 09:32 AM

Here's another quick mention of the infamous "chalking." At least this one seems to treat it with all the seriousness it deserves.

the cup · 03-08-2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

Here's another quick mention of the infamous "chalking." At least this one seems to treat it with all the seriousness it deserves.

Now thats more like it. I say we make Brad Rock an honorary Loyalists. I like his last line.

"Yeah, and to think it might have been an all-out toilet papering."

Arelius · 03-08-2005, 10:02 AM

This is the kind of article you get when someone is pressed for a deadline and doesn’t have anything ready yet…

Bramble: “I just don't want to use education funds to pay for a stadium.”

BTW, how is it that we would be using education funds for the stadium? RDA funds aren’t earmarked for education, but for development…

Deuce · 03-08-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arelius

BTW, how is it that we would be using education funds for the stadium? RDA funds aren’t earmarked for education, but for development…

I mentioned this in another post on this thread...
The politicians' trump card is the "Education Funding" subject!
They use that to scare people into supporting there idea or issue!

Most citizens won't... or don't care enough to actually check on it so they connect the use of education funding and stadiums...
ie; Stadium = less money for education.

Because that is what they are told!

This is completely untrue but who has a voice loud enough to call him on it!?

No soccer fan can because we have all been tarred with the same brush as England Football Hooligans because some clown decided to stop short of TP'ing Brambles' house.

Whether it is a fabrication or not... it is now the perception of the same people that have been told and also believe that stadium funding will come from the education budget!

WorldBall · 03-08-2005, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arelius

BTW, how is it that we would be using education funds for the stadium? RDA funds aren’t earmarked for education, but for development…

This gets to the heart of the matter. RDA funds provide wavers of paying property taxes for a specific period of time. These wavers are granted by a local jurisdiciton (city). However, by granting the waiver of paying property taxes, they are also waiving the ability of the local school district to also collect property taxes. Since 50% (or more) of property taxes go to the local school district, the RDA effectively removes the taxes from the entity receiving the waver that would have gone to the school district.

As an example of how this has affected the Alpine School District (where I live): Micron, Thanksgiving Point, and now Cabelas represent 3 of the top 4 taxable assets in northern utah county. However, because Lehi used RDA funds and tax waivers to lure these entities or corporations to the Lehi area, the Alpine School District has receive $0 in tax revenues from these developments. Now there are other developments and companies that do pay taxes, that have come to the area because Micron, T'giving Point, and Cabelas are in the area. However, easily hundreds of millions of dollars in property taxes that would have gone to education were given away by Lehi city. Eventually the tax waivers end, but by this time schools are overcrowded, teachers are underpaid, text books still say the earth is flat, roads are overcrowded, and the list goes on and on. (I love the Lehi area, and call it home but I disagree with many of the decisions that have been made in the past 10 years.)

This then becomes a bidding war by local cities who are very willing to give away education revenues to bring big box stores, etc to their geographic borders. Business clearly want tax breaks (don't we all) and are happy to go to the community that gives them the biggest tax breaks.

clarette · 03-08-2005, 10:42 AM

I'll play devil's advocate for a minute:

If cities are squandering all this money, shouldn't that be worked out through the electoral process (by not re-electing leaders who do stupid things with your money) and within each individual city, rather than a state law saying that nobody is allowed to do it?

Just wondering like...

Aero · 03-08-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldBall

However, easily hundreds of millions of dollars in property taxes that would have gone to education were given away by Lehi city.

This is kind of a catch 22. These hundreds of millions of dollars that are being lost would not have been there even if they hadn't used RDAs. They would just have empy land sitting there without generating hardly any tax income. So, it's really not quite accurate to say that they are losing out on millions of dollars. Unless you really believe that Thanksgiving Point, Micron, and Cabelas would have built there anyway. And I don't think that any of us are naive enough to believe that.

You can't really say that you are missing out on money that you wouldn't have had to begin with. But now, in the future, when the tax breaks wear off, you will have those millions of dollars in taxes that you would have never had if you hadn't given companies the incentive to move to your area. You'd still have empty fields there instead. And while they might generate a little tax income now, in the long run, using an RDA to get those businesses to build there will give you much more money for education. And you aren't even missing out on all that much now, so I don't see how RDAs can be said to hurt education at all, except in the short-sighted short term.

WorldBall · 03-08-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarette

I'llshouldn't that be worked out through the electoral process (by not re-electing leaders who do stupid things with your money) and within each individual city

Yes, you can and should resolve some of this within each city. However, what if the next city down I-15 is very willing to abuse the RDA rules. They get the tax breaks, they get the sales tax that could have gone to your city for parks, and they hurt your kid's education because they go to the same school district that they just robbed.

We do need state-wide RDA reform to keep these abuses from happening in the city next door. However, I disagree with the legislation that we are discussing about Sports Stadiums. It unfairly benefits the E-Center, Delta Center, and others that have already misused RDA funds and keeps us from getting what we should legitimatly have.