Who Is The American Beatles?

[Merrill]

Originally Posted by Czar Jake

There is no equivalent. The Beatles' influence was so far-reaching and huge that there has been nothing to compare with them from America. You can make a case for Nirvana, but even Kurt & co. pale in comparison with the influence the Beatles had. Elvis probably is the closest thing we've got.

That's cuz Kurt put a halt on their career years too early. They couldn't continue their influence...or prove that they indeed would not have one like Pearl Jam did.

What about Run DMC. Think about the influence they had. Look at the top 10 billiboard charts, and the only thing you can find on it that isn't rap is Kelly Clarkson (a fluke) or Green Day (Another fluke). I'm not a Rap fan, although I love the old skool stuff like DMC, but all the same you could easily say they were the American Beatles. They took music in a completely different direction than it was headed.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Snarf

but all the same you could easily say they were the American Beatles. They took music in a completely different direction than it was headed.

Ok well I am going to have to comment on that...

Just for the record... the trend setters in Rap were not Run-DMC or the Beastie Boys or even Will Smith *gasp!*. they Just happened to be the break-through groups. (We are talking about a time when the only black entertainment in mainstream music was Michael Jackson and Diana Ross and look at them now)
The groups that started the whole "Rap" scene were groups like the SugarHill Gang, fab five freddie and Grand Master Flash. they were the true Rap acts. The others were riding on thier coat tails and merely had better marketing people.

[Czar Jake]

That's true that Run DMC was not the first, but the same thing could be argued of the Beatles. They were the first to be incredibly popular though, and were probably the very best of their time as well.

In that case, Eminem can make a case for himself. He has probably been the most popular rapper in a long while, even among blacks, whites, latinos, etc... and his music is most times very very good. He wasn't quite at the beginning of rap music though, like the Beatles were for rock, so it doesn't quite fit.

[Deuce]

Good point Jake.

I suppose it could be argued that Eminem has had more or as much impact on bringing rap acts to the mainstream media as Run DMC... I mean rap was unheard of on the english airwaves until Eminem came along!

I am having a brain cramp trying to think back to the 80's and remember all the names that were in rap before the Run-DMC break through and the beginning of the Aerosmith comeback! I prolly will stop thinking about it... it hurts my brain!

[Mango Jam]

I love The Doors so much that my Mom made me a stained glass window of Jim Morrison and it hangs in my living room.

[Czar Jake]

Originally Posted by Mango Jam

I love The Doors so much that my Mom made me a stained glass window of Jim Morrison and it hangs in my living room.

That is awesome Mango! I love the doors as well. Once when I was 16 Robbie Kreiger was playing up in Park City. I couldn't get in because I was too young, but I crawled around behind the place it was at and listened through a vent to the whole show. It was really cool.

[DadOf8]

I'm a big fan of The Doors too. I'm not sure how much of an influence they've had on music though. You could argue that they influenced Goth rock and the darker Rock and Roll music, but that might be a stretch. As far as hits I think CCR had the most number ones singles and the most number one albums (I don't have the data to back that up). Nirvana did influence a new sound and a new direction in music, however it could be argued that it was more influenced by punk and then you would be looking at the Ramones. Had Cobain not killed himself it would have been interesting to see which direction Nirvana went. They were always different from the rest and that's what made them great. I look at Pearl Jam and wonder what happened there. They were once a mighty band but now a former shadow of themselves. I wonder if Nirvana would have suffered the same fate. Grunge artists say they were influenced by Neil Young, so you could even argue that Crosby, Stills, and Nash and Buffalo Springfield had an influence on grunge. But again, where is grunge now? I would say Rap and HipHop have survived longer than Grunge. I don't know if I would put Rap and HipHop in the same Genre as Rock and Roll however. I guess if you look at the roots of Rap and Hip Hop and the roots of Rock and Roll they both evolved from Jazz, Blues, and Gospel, right?

To me, it seems like all the great bands have come out of the U.K.; The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Queen, Pink Floyd, Cream. America has had some great bands too, but for shear quantity and quality the U.K. surpasses the U.S. by far, in my opinion. I imagine at some point some Rock and Roll journalists will get together and form a list of the top 100 most influencial American Rock and Roll bands if they haven't already. I just haven't seen one. If you make a list of the most influencial Rock and Roll bands period, The Beatles will always be at the top of everyone's list. It becomes harder when you try to do this with American bands (and you can't count Elvis, he wasn't a band).

[Czar Jake]

You are correct Dadof8. Plus, Neil Young and Nirvana's Grunge, the Ramones' Punk, and all the others are really just offshoots of The Beatles' Rock and Roll. And I agree that all the best can be traced back to the British Isles:

Rock = Beatles, Rolling Stones
- Progressive = Pink Floyd
- Hard Rock = Led Zeppelin
- Punk = Sex Pistols
- Pop Rock = U2
- Blues Rock = Clapton (though Blues is an american style, and Hendrix could be argued here)
etc.

I think Rap has to be the great American musical movement. It just doesn't have a definitive artist like the Beatles to look back on. I think Eminem is the closest you can get though.

[Deuce]

There were great British bands like the ones mentioned before but we cannot have a debate with out mentioning Slade, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, UFO and Cream.

Plus the whole Prog Rock Scene with the phenomenol YES!, Emerson Lake and Palmer, King Crimson and Electric Light Orchestra.

Ska trends with Madness and Squeeze...

The great thing about British Rock is that they are still pumping them out.

Blur, Oasis, ColdPlay, StarSailor, Travis, Paul Weller.

They have had there hiccups as well like the Spice Girls, Shakin' Steven, Five, the whole boy Band thing and the awful Pop Idol (the original version that spawned American Idol) and the bloody Reality TV started over there with Big Brother (the original not the edited censored and overall crap american version.) granted all reality TV bites it... but I digress!

I am pro-British(just in case you could not tell) but I am certainly not afraid to enjoy my good ol' american rock! For instance, Kiss, Alice Cooper, and My all-time Favorite Kansas

Originally Posted by Czar Jake

You are correct Dadof8. Plus, Neil Young and Nirvana's Grunge, the Ramones' Punk, and all the others are really just offshoots of The Beatles' Rock and Roll. And I agree that all the best can be traced back to the British Isles:

Rock = Beatles, Rolling Stones
- Progressive = Pink Floyd
- Hard Rock = Led Zeppelin
- Punk = Sex Pistols
- Pop Rock = U2
- Blues Rock = Clapton (though Blues is an american style, and Hendrix could be argued here)
etc.

I think Rap has to be the great American musical movement. It just doesn't have a definitive artist like the Beatles to look back on. I think Eminem is the closest you can get though.

[Czar Jake]

True, I'd say

- Metal = Black Sabbath.
and when I put Clapton, I meant all incarnations thereof i.e. Cream, Derek and the Dominoes, Blind Faith, etc.


But now that I think about it, there are some American offshoots too:

- Country Rock = Allman Brothers?
- Jam Rock = Grateful Dead

and I am a huge fan of tons of American artists such as Beck, Tom Petty, R.E.M., Bob Dylan (who probably deserves his own offshoot)

This has been a great thread, everyone, keep it up.