Soccer Stadium Dead?

Aerick · 01-09-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerman

I don't know who all here is posting on this subject in other places, but for the love of gravy can we all agree that this deal does involve Salt Lake County taxpayer money. I'm so sick of morons who keep posting that this deal isn't paid for by Salt Lake County residents (which I ain't) because the revenue is generated by a hotel tax. That is stupid. Money that is "earned" (the way the taxman earns his money) by Salt Lake County is money that now belongs to Salt Lake County. I think an argument can be made that the stadium might be a good investment for taxpayers, but the non-stop "this isn't funded by Salt Lake tax payers" baloney makes some stadium supporters seem ignorant, deceitful or both.

I am one of those ignorant, deceiptful types (I know you're surprised) that has argued this point. However, while I see what you're saying, it's the way you put that can make people feel like they're being cheated or not. I find that it's easier to tell them that it's not even their money in the first place. Call me lazy.

Essentially, the county will be taking money from tourists and temporarily placing it into the county taxpayers "pocket" for a split second, just to take it back out for something else. So, "yes", the money belongs to you and I, but it's new money and having it taken out for us immediately, it's as if it was never there - and obviously wouldn't be missed.

I assume that if I were to attempt to explain it that way, many would still feel like they were being "cheated" out of it by those money grubbin' corporate types, and that their taxes were going to go up and that the school kids weren't going to get milk at the cafeteria anymore, ad naseum...

soccerman · 01-10-2007, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerick

I am one of those ignorant, deceiptful types (I know you're surprised) that has argued this point. However, while I see what you're saying, it's the way you put that can make people feel like they're being cheated or not. I find that it's easier to tell them that it's not even their money in the first place. Call me lazy.

Essentially, the county will be taking money from tourists and temporarily placing it into the county taxpayers "pocket" for a split second, just to take it back out for something else. So, "yes", the money belongs to you and I, but it's new money and having it taken out for us immediately, it's as if it was never there - and obviously wouldn't be missed.

I assume that if I were to attempt to explain it that way, many would still feel like they were being "cheated" out of it by those money grubbin' corporate types, and that their taxes were going to go up and that the school kids weren't going to get milk at the cafeteria anymore, ad naseum...

Hey everyone!! If you can find out Aerick's bank account info and start stealing his paychecks right after they are deposited he (obviously) won't miss the money!! The key is to do this quickly so the (new) money isn't his for very long and then he won't care at all. He won't even notice!! In fact someone should clue DUD into this fabulous new source of funding. You'll get a nobel for economics yet, Capt'n.

PS - I isn't an object

PPS - Is it just me or is using I as an object way more annoying than using me as a subject

PPPS - I'm fully aware that posts that correct grammar or spelling are the most annoying posts of all, but I needed some postscripts

PPPPS - A post without postscripts isn't much of a post at all

PPPPPS - nuts I had to edit the number of P's in my postscripts

Balanceut · 01-10-2007, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerick

Essentially, the county will be taking money from tourists and temporarily placing it into the county taxpayers "pocket" for a split second, just to take it back out for something else. So, "yes", the money belongs to you and I, but it's new money and having it taken out for us immediately, it's as if it was never there - and obviously wouldn't be missed.

Exactly! It is like taking your new raise at your job and putting it directly into savings. You don't miss it because you don't try to live on it.

Remus · 01-10-2007, 08:53 AM

Another article. http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650221699,00.html

Looks like the land may be polluted, and must be cleaned up before construction can begin. http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_4982795

rabble-rabble · 01-10-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remus

Another article. http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650221699,00.html

Looks like the land may be polluted, and must be cleaned up before construction can begin. http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_4982795

I really question about whether this is news-worthy or not. I would suspect that it is quite common for a company who has purchased land to be 'surprised' to find some unwanted item or substance get left behind that has to be removed or cleaned up before proceeding. But anything the local media can find that will hurt the stadium is going to be given as much attention as possible. Next we'll invariably see LTTE claiming that RSL is out to poison us all.

soccerman · 01-10-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balanceut

Exactly! It is like taking your new raise at your job and putting it directly into savings. You don't miss it because you don't try to live on it.

Well it is exactly like that in the sense that it isn't anything like that at all. It would be more like using the extra income to qualify for a loan, taking the money from the loan and giving it to one of your friends to help them start a car detailing buisness with the understanding that some time in the future (if they start making money) they will give you a small percentage of their sales. If they don't ever make any money or if they decide to move their car detailing buisness somewhere else. . . Well good thing you got that raise because you're still paying off the loan. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's light years ahead of the first one.

Aerick · 01-10-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soccerman

Well it is exactly like that in the sense that it isn't anything like that at all. It would be more like using the extra income to qualify for a loan, taking the money from the loan and giving it to one of your friends to help them start a car detailing buisness with the understanding that some time in the future (if they start making money) they will give you a small percentage of their sales. If they don't ever make any money or if they decide to move their car detailing buisness somewhere else. . . Well good thing you got that raise because you're still paying off the loan. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's light years ahead of the first one.

I know you said that it wasn't a perfect analogy, but I'm going to add something to it that changes things.

The new income you received from your place of employment was predicated on the basis that you would use it to invest in something - such as your friends detailing shop. Therefore, you already knew beforehand that the money wasn't yours to keep and/or do with however you chose.

What's happening with the citizens of this great county, is that they've either forgotten this fact or were never educated about this fact in the first place. Instead, they feel like they got some new, shiny silver dollars and someone's trying to take them away.

This happens all the time, from what I understand. The state appropriates money for certain purposes and then the county implements the appropriate spending of it. Do we feel like someone's stealing from us because we never had the money in our pockets - or because we didn't get to decide where it went? Not usually. That's why we elect people - to decide for us, otherwise we'd spend our entire existence in a voting booth.

Balanceut · 01-10-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabble-rabble

I really question about whether this is news-worthy or not. I would suspect that it is quite common for a company who has purchased land to be 'surprised' to find some unwanted item or substance get left behind that has to be removed or cleaned up before proceeding. But anything the local media can find that will hurt the stadium is going to be given as much attention as possible. Next we'll invariably see LTTE claiming that RSL is out to poison us all.

The thing is when a hazardous waste situation is found on land (and a buried gasoline tank and the surrounding buried soil is considered hazardous) is all former owners of the land are considered equally liable by law even if they can prove they had nothing to do with gasoline, nor any knowledge (that is to keep companies from shielding the guilty through land transfers). Because of this law that was implemented 15 or so years back, it is routine now to do an ecological survey of a piece of property that has any reasonable possibility of hazardous waste prior to purchase. There will probably be a pretty gnarly lawsuit here if the cost of cleanup is sufficiently high.

Loyal1 · 01-11-2007, 09:36 AM

Hope it doesn't push construction back much.

Somehow I thought that little plot of land looked that way since Brigham rolled into the valley.

rabble-rabble · 01-23-2007, 11:12 AM

So where has everyone gone? Other than the spam wars over on the off topic area, very little happening on this board right now.

At this point I'm getting frustrated with all these delays. I just want to know if we get a stadium or not so I know whether I'll be watching RSL play in a beautiful stadium with great sight lines in 2009, or watching a lower divison USL team on a high school pointy ball field.

Trying to be optimistic, but the longer this goes on, the more impatient I get.