How many points from the next six July matches does Ellinger need?

prk166 · 07-03-2006, 12:02 PM

I have a lot of mixed emotions about firing any coach. I think teams do tend to pull the trigger too quickly. Like LA firing Sigi. Sure, they were underperforming but theyre falling apart as a team and he had shown already what he could do with them. Or Mo getting canned by NYRB. The team gets new ownership and the FO is a mess and he gets canned. Sure, they needed some more wins. But they weren't losing. They seemed like they were just waiting to turn the corner and gel. I Or Sunderland firing McCarthy because they're fizzy opop squad - suprise, suprise - can't compete in the Prem. know there are times it should be done and needs to be done. I just wouldn't want to put too much emphasis on results. It's important to have expectations. But if RSL finished the year with 45 points but doesn't make the playoffs, do you fire the guy? I think some patience is needed to build a team. Afterall, where would Germany be right now if they fired Klinnsman after losing 4-1 to Italy? It can take some time to do this.

The thing with RSL is I'm not sure what Ellinger is building. Cunningham and Talley are about to 30. At what point do Cunningham's wheels go? Kries and Pope are 33. Can they play well for the rest of this year or next? It's hard to see them playing in 2008. Garlick is 34. Sure, GKs can play til theiry old but again, will he be around in 08? Torres, Sequiera, Brown (hah!) and Williams are 29. I'm not sure what he's building here. Medhi would be someone to build the team around, at least he seems that way right now. But whom else? I'm not saying he need sto be bulding a team for the future to be given some paitence. He is building an expansion team an ddeserves some paitence for that. But he's got a bunch of key, pricey vets on the squad this year and so far he's done no better than last. Sure, he'll do better in the last half of the season when compared to last year. But that's onl cuz a team really can't do worse.

He has been given some slack by the FO for having an expansion team. But I think that should've been considered used up. The FO kept their checkbook open for him and was willing to let him bring in some vets. And at that they were willing to do that even though they weren't able to get out of paying for most of Cleatus' paycheck. IIRC RSL has the 5th highest payroll in the league. I think it's fair to expect some results that include making the playoffs.

And while I'm mentioning rebuilding, I'm suprised that Sigi's got the results he has at Columbus. Of the current roster of 31 players only Jon Busch, Knox Cameron, Hejduk , Marshall, Johnny Walker, and Danny Szetela were with Columbus last year. They're not doing great, 17 points from 15 games, but they're not doing too bad given that he's rebuilding the team. What could Sigi have done with an RSL that didn't need nearly that much tinkering?

Aerick · 07-03-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prk166

I have a lot of mixed emotions about firing any coach. I think teams do tend to pull the trigger too quickly. Like LA firing Sigi. Sure, they were underperforming but theyre falling apart as a team and he had shown already what he could do with them. Or Mo getting canned by NYRB. The team gets new ownership and the FO is a mess and he gets canned. Sure, they needed some more wins. But they weren't losing. They seemed like they were just waiting to turn the corner and gel. I Or Sunderland firing McCarthy because they're fizzy opop squad - suprise, suprise - can't compete in the Prem. know there are times it should be done and needs to be done. I just wouldn't want to put too much emphasis on results. It's important to have expectations. But if RSL finished the year with 45 points but doesn't make the playoffs, do you fire the guy? I think some patience is needed to build a team. Afterall, where would Germany be right now if they fired Klinnsman after losing 4-1 to Italy? It can take some time to do this.

The thing with RSL is I'm not sure what Ellinger is building. Cunningham and Talley are about to 30. At what point do Cunningham's wheels go? Kries and Pope are 33. Can they play well for the rest of this year or next? It's hard to see them playing in 2008. Garlick is 34. Sure, GKs can play til theiry old but again, will he be around in 08? Torres, Sequiera, Brown (hah!) and Williams are 29. I'm not sure what he's building here. Medhi would be someone to build the team around, at least he seems that way right now. But whom else? I'm not saying he need sto be bulding a team for the future to be given some paitence. He is building an expansion team an ddeserves some paitence for that. But he's got a bunch of key, pricey vets on the squad this year and so far he's done no better than last. Sure, he'll do better in the last half of the season when compared to last year. But that's onl cuz a team really can't do worse.

He has been given some slack by the FO for having an expansion team. But I think that should've been considered used up. The FO kept their checkbook open for him and was willing to let him bring in some vets. And at that they were willing to do that even though they weren't able to get out of paying for most of Cleatus' paycheck. IIRC RSL has the 5th highest payroll in the league. I think it's fair to expect some results that include making the playoffs.

And while I'm mentioning rebuilding, I'm suprised that Sigi's got the results he has at Columbus. Of the current roster of 31 players only Jon Busch, Knox Cameron, Hejduk , Marshall, Johnny Walker, and Danny Szetela were with Columbus last year. They're not doing great, 17 points from 15 games, but they're not doing too bad given that he's rebuilding the team. What could Sigi have done with an RSL that didn't need nearly that much tinkering?

I think RSL has several good young players to begin building a team around:

Medhi
Forko
Novak (questionable)
Watson
Besagno (questionable)

Are all of these guys All Stars? Probably not, but they've all got talent, and the wherewithall to make it in this league - and with Medhi in the middle, he can help make alot of them better as a team. We just need to have veterans to help bring them to that point. That's my opinion.

Dadof3 · 07-03-2006, 01:14 PM

I chose 5 pts because that was the least amount of points available as an option. Ellinger has the front office convinced of a couple things: 1) that he is a great coach for the younger players (which is hard to dispute seeing how Forko, Ballouchi, and Novac are playing), and 2) that he has no responsibility as coach to motivate the veteran players, because they should be motivating themselves. He gets to keep his job until the front office wakes up and realizes that the coach is responsible for more than developing young players...he is also in charge of tactics and motivating ALL his players.

With that being said, as long as the team keeps losing by 1 goal, they will continue to say they just need to get a bounce or two, and the front office will agree.

I don't see any changes coming unless the vets choose to tank like they did at the end of last year.

prk166 · 07-03-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerick

I think RSL has several good young players to begin building a team around:

Medhi
Forko
Novak (questionable)
Watson
Besagno (questionable)

I think if he's lucky, Watson turns out to be a MLS squad player a la Chris Brown. The same with Novak and Forko. I don't see anything about any of them other than Medhi that doesn't deserve (questionable) next to them. How many times has Forko got up the left wing and got off a great cross? What about Novak on the right? How many minutes and goals has Watson since he came into the league? Most kids don't pan out. Look at some of the products of the ManU youth system. For every Gary Neville or David Beckham, there are a couple Wallworks and Higgabothams. Heck, look at where it got Terry Cooke and Jovan Kirovski, they're playing for the Rapids. A lot of promising young talent doesn't turn into the player class of player Medhi looks to be. So it's not a knock on those guys as a player. Just that I don't see how what they've shown in regards to team building. If anything, Attiba should go on that list before Watson. He's the same age and, IMHO, has shown more ability to play in the MLS. But that's part of the fun about this form, it's just my two-bits worth. I hope those guys turn out to be something more than what I think they will. Afterall, how many San Jose fans in '97 would've thought Eddie Lewis would've become one of the better US players overseas?

Are all of these guys All Stars? Probably not, but they've all got talent, and the wherewithall to make it in this league - and with Medhi in the middle, he can help make alot of them better as a team. We just need to have veterans to help bring them to that point. That's my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Aerick · 07-03-2006, 10:52 PM

Good point. I forgot about Attiba. I also think that Forko is doing as excellent a job in his role as Medhi is in his. And both being rookies is saying something.

AreliusIV · 07-15-2006, 06:20 PM

Well, since I posted this thread RSL squeaked out a draw vs. Chivas at home and lost to LA away.

However, with last night's away win, RSL is now just 7 pts. off of qualifying for the playoffs.

Next three games are all home games:

7/22 - FC Dallas
7/26 - Chivas USA
7/29 - D.C. United

Can RSL carry the momentum of its last two wins (Open Cup and NE) into the next three home games?

prk166 · 07-16-2006, 11:18 AM

Actually it's trickier than that. If you're looking at Colorado it's 8 to 11 points since CO has a game in hand. On the other hand, Chivas also has 24 points. The gap there is 8 to 5 points since RSL has a game in hand on them.

AreliusIV · 07-23-2006, 11:16 PM

So far during the month of July, RSL has garnered one draw, two losses and a win (1-2-1) for a total of 4 points so far.

RSL has two home games left this month (Chivas, DC United).

This season is looking an awful lot like last season. When is Dave C. going to wake up and realize that this is the same bad nightmare (woeful performances with an occasional surprise)?

AreliusIV · 07-27-2006, 08:25 AM

With one game remaining to be played this month, RSL has only been able to garner 5 pts during the month of July. If RSL loses this Saturday vs. DC United, then it will have matched the lowest option of this poll.

In other words, the large majority of you who voted said that Ellinger needed far greater results than what he has gotten.

Even Ellinger himself said that he needed pts from all four home games. Of the possible 9 pts from home games so far, Ellinger has only gotten 2 pts.

Ellinger said before last Saturday's match that he needed at least 7 pts from the last 3 games of this month. Two games later, he has only secured 1 pt.

What will it take for Checketts to realize that Ellinger is failing to reach even his own low standards?

What will it take for us to make our voices be heard? How can we stand for this crap?

clarette · 07-27-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

What will it take for us to make our voices be heard? How can we stand for this crap?

I would advise against saying anything about firing Ellinger at the matches, or Trey will say bad words to you... :wine: