Keep Ellinger

knowwonnose · 05-01-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stucki

Using Coach Ellinger as a scapegoat merely glosses over the fact that are players are not yet good enough to be a contending side. Several of our younger players have enough talent but not enough experience. Give them time to grow up. If Coach can't win with his young players in a couple of years, then fire him.

Preach it brother!

knowwonnose · 05-01-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSLfrontrowfan

The typical Utah sports fan isn't going to support a losing team. If the team doesn't start winning now attendance will continue to drop. This just adds fuel for those opposed to providing any public funding for a stadium. only 16k showed up for the defending champs and Landon Donovan. You think next weeks match with the East's whipping boy will draw even 15k?

A typical Utah sports fan has supported loosing fans as long as I remember. I lift the Jazz as one example. At least, if RSL's plan to build through young talent works, you know that Utahns will flock to the stadium.

AreliusIV · 05-01-2006, 02:25 PM

Come the end of May, if we don't have any wins, public support will be at a all-time low and we will be the laughing-stock of MLS. (Bring on Real Madrid!)

I recall Ellinger himself stating before the start of the season that anything less than a winning record would be unacceptable.

Well, so far RSL's record is a losing one. And that's unacceptable. It's more of the same from last year. If fact, its worst than last year.

I say, stop the bleeding now!!!

SpiffCoug · 05-01-2006, 02:30 PM

So we weren't competing against Houston when they needed a late goal (last 10 minutes) to pull out the victory? We didn't compete against Dallas who also needed a late goal to win the game?

I think we are competing, but we're failing at key moments in games that our opponents are taking advantage of. When our opponents have a lapse, we hit the post or shank a kick on a breakaway. The other teams are capitalizing and getting the bounces to go their way and we're not.

I don't know if changing coaches would have made Kreis' free kick against Houston bounce in the net. I'm not sure if Ellinger were fired that Cunningham would have put away more chances against Tony Meola. I don't know what the answer is. But it seems that to every criticism of Ellinger, I don't see what firing him would accomplish - other than asking fans to find a new scapegoat.

fuegote · 05-01-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiffCoug

So we weren't competing against Houston when they needed a late goal (last 10 minutes) to pull out the victory? We didn't compete against Dallas who also needed a late goal to win the game?

against Houston we weren't really competing. we didn't deserve to have a tie, let alone a win.

knowwonnose · 05-01-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I recall Ellinger himself stating before the start of the season that anything less than a winning record would be unacceptable.

I looked for that, and can't find it. Where/when did he say that?

I_Believe_In_Kreis · 05-01-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiffCoug

I don't know if changing coaches would have made Kreis' free kick against Houston bounce in the net.

You're correct, it wouldn't. However, with the right coach it doesn't come down to that free kick.
I agree with almost everything you say with regards to key moments. That stuff's on the players. The real question is, why does it always come down to key moments with this team? If we put some of these teams out of their misery early, or manage to hold a lead, we can afford some of these mistakes, miscues, bad bounces, whatever you want to call them. For example, if we play with better effort in Houston, that "lucky" 86th minute goal by DeRo only serves to cut our winning margin. Take those late key moments out of the game by burying your opponent early. That's RSL's biggest problem IMO, and it goes squarely on the coach.
But SpiffCoug makes a good argument - thanks for your post.

RSLfrontrowfan · 05-01-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

A typical Utah sports fan has supported loosing fans as long as I remember. I lift the Jazz as one example. At least, if RSL's plan to build through young talent works, you know that Utahns will flock to the stadium.

Check out the University of Utah's attendance the last 20 years. It was pretty pathetic until the last several years. The Jazz are going through a down turn in attendance. This year the Delta center saw several of the lowest attended games ever in its history. If attendance wasn't a problem with the Jazz do you think they'd be dropping season ticket prices like they've been advertising?! The Jazz are a perfect example of fickle Utah fans.

knowwonnose · 05-01-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuegote

against Houston we weren't really competing. we didn't deserve to have a tie, let alone a win.

I don't know what game you were watching but I saw a team completely out classed in every one field respect whose coach developed a great strategy to keep the team in the game. It almost worked. Now you could have argued "Why only 3 backs?" but you would have fumed if Brown or Cabrara was actually on the field. Who else would be back there? That's the problem, it is going to take time to get a team that man-for-man matches up with other teams.

Burninator · 05-01-2006, 03:34 PM

There seems to be one particular argument that gets mentioned every now and then, but isn't explored well enough. The argument is that we changed over %50 of our team during the offseason with the goal of upgrading our team and literally have nothing to show for it, hence the argument that the things that haven't been changed (coaching) are the ones that are screwing us over.

I think we have upgrades in the following players: Sequeira, Klein, Cunningham, Garlick, Ballouchy and Torres. I like these guys more than Pierce, Dunseth, DJ, or <shudder> Behncke, for example. We have a significant jump in talent level, I believe, in these players.

Now, if we have more talent, why aren't we getting the results? There are a couple of viable options, and poor refereeing and "bounces" not going our way don't count (to me):

1) Team hasn't gelled sufficiently: What is practice for? Who is responsible for the team's gel state? Supposedly we have a much better lockerroom atmosphere this year, less infighting, etc etc. So what is keeping the team from gelling? Ellinger MAY shoulder a significant portion of the blame here.

2) Talent not matched by workrate/effort/conditioning: We saw this in LA against Chivas, and somewhat in the Galaxy game. Who is responsible for proper training and conditioning, and also for trying to build a winning attitude into our players? Once again, Ellinger MAY shoulder a significant portion of the blame here.

3) Talent underutilized by lack of effective tactics: Playing guys out of position, asking guys to learn new positions, playing 3-5-2 against 4-3-3; Lack of team cohesion, tactically speaking, bad passing, little movement off the ball, etc. Plenty of evidence here against Ellinger, and certain players as well.

4) Talent overshadowed by lack of discipline: WHINING TO THE REFS about calls/no-calls, sitting on the ground after being fouled, throwing up arms into the air after no call, etc. Someone either here or on BigSoccer once recommended that RSL outsource its anger towards referees and opposing teams to the fans in the stands. I agree. If I were running a soccer team, I would tell my players to get up ASAP when they fell, to not whine to the ref, and to just give it their all. Anyone not doing so would be penalized. They can show their frustrations in other ways, preferrably involving the back of the other team's net, and not involving yellow cards. NO MORE STANDING AROUND WAITING FOR THE REF, LADY LUCK, OR "BOUNCES"!

Ellinger is not looking too good right now, and I don't care if Akwari played on a team that went down 0-5 in the late 90s then went on to win the Eastern Conference. I don't want our team to underachieve, and I feel that they are doing so. We need more players like Kreis on our team, players that CARE. Ellinger needs to get fired up, I want to see him get ejected from a game. I want to see PASSION in my team, and I don't see any coming from its coach. The trickle-down effect from coach to player is killing us, IMHO.

⚽ Geoff
-----------------------
REGULATORS! Mount up!
Let the 12th man be the crowd, not the ref...

"The goals we've given up in the preseason have been good goals. Knock on wood, we haven't given up easy goals. I hope that continues for a long time."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635194958,00.html

"This is not a slam on anybody, but I think we've improved our quality, and I think we've improved the quality of the individual," "Anyone can look at our roster and see we're getting better,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635180131,00.html

"We know that last year effort was a problem at times, and I think everybody knows me by now, and knows that's not going to be an issue (this year)."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635182636,00.html

"It's one of those things when you're in the position we are in the league, there's never a shortage of calls from agents,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635155957,00.html

"Obviously now we start to put a team on the field that's worthy of what our future facility plans are,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635152962,00.html

"but that's the big issue, getting the effort and the work ethic working together on the field."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635190122,00.html

"We really do feel we're solid depth wise,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635195567,00.html

"Andy's worked very hard in the preseason. He's as fit as I've ever seen him,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635195916,00.html