Loyalist New Agenda discussion

DadOf8 · 07-07-2005, 01:08 PM

I've been talking to a potential Loyalist and he said he was going to join the Loyalists, but seeing how some of us (including myself) have treated RCB, he's not sure if he wants to join if that's the way we treat people. I think we all need to just take a breath, relax, and think about what we're going to say before we say it or write it. I made a comment about being glad that RCB isn't posting on our board any longer. I said this in frustration, I still haven't learned to think twice before I write something or say something. I think the Loyalists are a great group of people and the RCB members I've met, Bardguy, Fuegote, Alianza are nice guys too. It's hard to interpret what people really mean when they're posting on a forum. I would suspect that most people, especially in a group like this, are not trolling. If someone posts something that offends, I think we need to ask ourselves what their real intentions are and at the same time I think we need to think twice about how our comments might be perceived. This forum is a great recruiting tool for The Loyalists, we need to remember that a lot of people are looking at us. I realize that I've been hipocritical and I apologize to RCB. If they accept my apology and come back, that's great, if they chose not to accept my apology and go off and do their own thing, then that's their perogative, but we need to go out of our way to fellowship people. Glenn made me feel real welcome at the tail gate, I think we could all follow Glenn's example.

Stucki · 07-07-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadOf8

I've been talking to a potential Loyalist and he said he was going to join the Loyalists, but seeing how some of us (including myself) have treated RCB, he's not sure if he wants to join if that's the way we treat people. I think we all need to just take a breath, relax, and think about what we're going to say before we say it or write it. I made a comment about being glad that RCB isn't posting on our board any longer. I said this in frustration, I still haven't learned to think twice before I write something or say something. I think the Loyalists are a great group of people and the RCB members I've met, Bardguy, Fuegote, Alianza are nice guys too. It's hard to interpret what people really mean when they're posting on a forum. I would suspect that most people, especially in a group like this, are not trolling. If someone posts something that offends, I think we need to ask ourselves what their real intentions are and at the same time I think we need to think twice about how our comments might be perceived. This forum is a great recruiting tool for The Loyalists, we need to remember that a lot of people are looking at us. I realize that I've been hipocritical and I apologize to RCB. If they accept my apology and come back, that's great, if they chose not to accept my apology and go off and do their own thing, then that's their perogative, but we need to go out of our way to fellowship people. Glenn made me feel real welcome at the tail gate, I think we could all follow Glenn's example.

Those of us that have gone off on people without thinking are great recruiting tools for RCB. There is more to the story and stuff that happens behind the scenes, but we look like the bad guys. We have to stop allowing ourselves to get baited into saying stupid things that reflect poorly upon the entire group. The RCB situation is not the only time we have had this problem. In actuality, it isn't even really a problem between RCB and the Loyalists, but personality clashes between some individuals from the two groups which spread to people defending the honor of their friends on the forum. Nobody involved in the whole mess came out of it looking very good, but it does indeed look like we are picking on the RCB, largely because that is how people chose to identify the problem. So, if we all will just take a deep breath and not get offended by something on a forum, we will all be much better off.

RSL_Fan · 07-07-2005, 03:00 PM

I agree with you guys. The internet allows people to be so anonymous. I'm sure many people would never say some of the things that are written on any forum board to someone face to face. This forum however, isn't quite so anonymous...as we associate, or potentially associate, with each other at the games or other RSL events. I'm sure we all need to think twice before posting something that may be a bit controversial or attacking. It is SO difficult to express feelings in writing (at least for me).

Anyway, the main reason we are here...GO RSL!!! :banjump1:

Merrill · 07-07-2005, 03:18 PM

My advice to everyone is this:

If you come across a post that is inflamatory or drivel or whatever else might motivate you to be mean. Rather than reaching for that mouse and clicking on the

button, simply move your mouse to the next forum on the list, and go read that one instead.

Case in point. There was a post by somebody, I don't remember who, who said the Loyalists were like little children compared to his vaunted Italian supporters groups that he was used to. It made me want to write back angrily, and instead of reaching for the mouse and clicking on the

button. I just moved on.

I avoided making an ass of myself, and nobody had to get in a fight with me. Interestingly enough. that thread I referred to was filled with diplomatic responses. What happened to our diplomats? Where did you go Joe DiMaggio?

RSLfrontrowfan · 07-07-2005, 04:47 PM

My comments aren't meant to be antagonistic (so don't take them that way), simply another perspective from someone on the "outside". I am a dues paying loyalist and was one of the first to submit a deposit for season tix. However, my tix are in section 37. I've got to tell you guys that there are a lot of people who are completely turned off by everything that has transpired recently involving the loyalists and RCB.

There were even people turned off by the loyalists before the RCB was even dreamed up. I'm not talking about a few people, I'm talking about dozens of people who have been turned off and feel the loyalists (in the loyalist section) are, to quote one, "uninviting elitists". This is, from what little I know about the RCB, the reason why they formed their own group. In case you haven't noticed, the "loyalist section" only makes up a small portion of the stadium. There are alot of people in the other sections (who may or may not already be loyalists) who feel they haven't been welcomed by the loyalists or have said they've felt the loyalists have been demeaning and condescending (for example, some mention the extreme backlash from some loyalists during the black streamer debate). To be honest, I have got to tell you guys that there is good reason for some of these people to feel this way. Those that aren't in the "loyalist section" feel excluded by not being privy to all the "insider details". I have attended all of the pre-game tailgates and have introduced myself, over the weeks, to most there and even I sometimes get the feeling that I'm not one of "the group". At the start of the season there were many in section 37 who wanted to defer their own interests and run things by the loyalists and follow the lead of the "loyalist section" in chants etc... but now they could absolutely care less about what the loyalists do. Many who have felt turned off from the loyalists now are looking for their own identity, as witnessed by RCB. I think most of the blame for this has been deflected outward by the loyalists, when instead it should have been internalized IMHO.

bordelais7 · 07-07-2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSLfrontrowfan

My comments aren't meant to be antagonistic (so don't take them that way), simply another perspective from someone on the "outside". I am a dues paying loyalist and was one of the first to submit a deposit for season tix. However, my tix are in section 37. I've got to tell you guys that there are a lot of people who are completely turned off by everything that has transpired recently involving the loyalists and RCB.

There were even people turned off by the loyalists before the RCB was even dreamed up. I'm not talking about a few people, I'm talking about dozens of people who have been turned off and feel the loyalists (in the loyalist section) are, to quote one, "uninviting elitists". This is, from what little I know about the RCB, the reason why they formed their own group. In case you haven't noticed, the "loyalist section" only makes up a small portion of the stadium. There are alot of people in the other sections (who may or may not already be loyalists) who feel they haven't been welcomed by the loyalists or have said they've felt the loyalists have been demeaning and condescending (for example, some mention the extreme backlash from some loyalists during the black streamer debate). To be honest, I have got to tell you guys that there is good reason for some of these people to feel this way. Those that aren't in the "loyalist section" feel excluded by not being privy to all the "insider details". I have attended all of the pre-game tailgates and have introduced myself, over the weeks, to most there and even I sometimes get the feeling that I'm not one of "the group". At the start of the season there were many in section 37 who wanted to defer their own interests and run things by the loyalists and follow the lead of the "loyalist section" in chants etc... but now they could absolutely care less about what the loyalists do. Many who have felt turned off from the loyalists now are looking for their own identity, as witnessed by RCB. I think most of the blame for this has been deflected outward by the loyalists, when instead it should have been internalized IMHO.

What do you suggest? I have never stood with the Loyalists (always been seated elsewhere) yet have a different perception. How could the Loyalists make you and others feel more welcome?

Jose Luis Luviano · 07-07-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

I have attended all of the pre-game tailgates and have introduced myself, over the weeks, to most there and even I sometimes get the feeling that I'm not one of "the group".

My theory has pretty much always been "big deal". As long as I get some yummy Cholesterol in my system & I can make noise & yell "New York Jets" at Tony Meola, I'm happy.

Who cares if I am "one of the group", as long as I get mint cookies and people will sing "Kasey, Kasey Keller, king of the US goal" at Tony Meola?

Compared to my experience with the Galaxians/Riot Squad, maybe the Loyalists are a little distracted and appear to not be outgoing. Loyalists tend to have little kids they have to keep track of, so that cuts down on the time they have to socialize.

As long as they don't throw nachos and liquids that I pray are beer and soda at me, any fan is OK by me.

Now, my wife wants to join the Loyalists. She may not be able to go to any games, (long story). But she thinks that Loyalist T Shirts look good, so she's in. So go figure.

RSLfrontrowfan · 07-07-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bordelais7

What do you suggest? I have never stood with the Loyalists (always been seated elsewhere) yet have a different perception. How could the Loyalists make you and others feel more welcome?

I'm not here to tell the loyalists what to do. I decided to steer clear of the whole loyalist vs RCB fiasco while it was really heated. Now that things have cooled down I just thought I'd share what other people have mentioned to me about the loyalists and what my experience has been as a section 37 "outsider".

Aerick · 07-07-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose Luis Luviano

My theory has pretty much always been "big deal". As long as I get some yummy Cholesterol in my system & I can make noise & yell "New York Jets" at Tony Meola, I'm happy.

Who cares if I am "one of the group", as long as I get mint cookies and people will sing "Kasey, Kasey Keller, king of the US goal" at Tony Meola?

Compared to my experience with the Galaxians/Riot Squad, maybe the Loyalists are a little distracted and appear to not be outgoing. Loyalists tend to have little kids they have to keep track of, so that cuts down on the time they have to socialize.

As long as they don't throw nachos and liquids that I pray are beer and soda at me, any fan is OK by me.

Now, my wife wants to join the Loyalists. She may not be able to go to any games, (long story). But she thinks that Loyalist T Shirts look good, so she's in. So go figure.

Weird, my wife did the same thing on the 4th. "I want one of those shirts", at which point I introduced her to the family membership of the Loyalists (was hesitant to do so before she came to a game).

Back to the topic:

I agree with Bordy's post. What suggestions do we have to make ourselves more welcoming? It's good to know we have a problem (I wasn't aware, I thought we were all one happy family). I for one, felt like an outsider for the first month or so, but realized that it was MY responsibility to get in there and socialize if I wanted to be a part of the group. Sure Deuce made me feel more welcomed at my first tailgate. And a few people said "hi" at the first Iggy's watch party I attended. But, for the most part, because this is still a new group, and we don't all know each other, it does feel a little awkward at times - sometimes even forced, if I dare say it.

The thing is, perhaps we can have a "new member" VP or Secretary or whatever you want to call it, whose responsibility is to welcome the new members, inform them what it's all about, encourage them to be involved (forum, tailgates, etc.), and introduce them to others in the group and the group culture - and we do have a culture, make no mistake. It may be a big job for one person, so perhaps two or three might be better. I can guarantee we'll have a higher "retention" rate if each person is taken "under someone's wing" at first.

However, this shouldn't absolve each person their own personal responsibility to be actively engaged in trying to fit into the group they've joined and become acquainted with it - in my opinion.

the cup · 07-07-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSLfrontrowfan

I'm talking about dozens of people who have been turned off and feel the loyalists (in the loyalist section) are, to quote one, "uninviting elitists".

I'm getting tired of people calling the Loyalists "uninviting" or "elite."

If anyone knew me or most of the people in the Loyalists section they would see how un-elite we are. I'm about as big of a looser as you are going to get. But I'm a soccer fan there to cheer on the team, and I'm going to go where it's the loudest.

Plus, I don't have time to walk around shaking hands, I'm too damn busy trying to find a place for my damn flags where they won't bother people. I still don't know half of the Loyalists and I couldn't care less. I'm there to cheer my side on to victory, bounce with everyone in the section be they Loyalists, Rogue Cavaliers or Jesters, throw streamers and try to get people in the north section to join in.

And if there are people out there that want to start another group, that's cool. All great soccer teams have 4 or 5 supporter groups. But this crying about being left out is crazy. Our website is clearly visable on our banners and there are simple instructions there on how to join the group.

But I'm sure as hell not going to wipe anyone's butt to make them feel welcome. Nobody wiped my butt when I joined up. I'm a big boy now and I don't need anyone to clean me. I had never met any of the current Loyalists. I just walked up and joined. What was so hard about that?