I'm Kind of Concerned... help me out, RCB

[montgjules]

Hey RCBites,

I have stated my support for the idea of more than one supporter's group other places, and I think y'all are great people, but I do have one little concern. I'm wondering if you could help me out here and give me your thoughts.

So the basic issue that I'm concerned with right now is this question: During the transition period between Loyalists and Loyalists/RCB, how can the RCB exist without taking away from the Loyalists? Two examples:

1. You're creating your own t-shirts and scarves. (Who the heck wants to wear black in July???) The Loyalists have tried very hard to create a certain look in the Loyalists section with everybody wearing red. It creates a cool sea of color. How can the RCB sit with the Loyalists in their black t-shirts without it ruining the red effect that the Loyalists started?

2. Let's say the Loyalists start a cheer. Then the RCB think, "That's a lame cheer. Listen to THIS!" and then they start something else. Is that really such a far-out idea? If you're not rude enough to actually drown out a Loyalist cheer, what about starting them all yourselves so the other group never gets a chance to start ones they want to do?

Now I don't want to seem victimized or anything, but can you possibly exist right next to the Loyalists without spoiling a lot of what the Loyalists have worked toward? Those are just two examples and I think it kind of summarizes the issue at heart between the two groups. I think that next season if the RCB chooses their own section to sit together this will not be an issue. But for THIS year, how can it NOT be an issue? I'm just curious.

It seems to me that *IF* these things become a problem, it would be reasonable for the RCB members to try to "fit in" a LITTLE BIT (not 100% following the crowd or anything) for the rest of this year, because you chose to sit with us and be with us.

I hope this makes sense. I'm not trying to fight or complain; just curious what your attitude is for the remainder of this year.

If this post causes more fighting, please close the thread because that's not my intention. 🕺

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by montgjules

Hey RCBites,

I have stated my support for the idea of more than one supporter's group other places, and I think y'all are great people, but I do have one little concern. I'm wondering if you could help me out here and give me your thoughts.

So the basic issue that I'm concerned with right now is this question: During the transition period between Loyalists and Loyalists/RCB, how can the RCB exist without taking away from the Loyalists? Two examples:

1. You're creating your own t-shirts and scarves. (Who the heck wants to wear black in July???) The Loyalists have tried very hard to create a certain look in the Loyalists section with everybody wearing red. It creates a cool sea of color. How can the RCB sit with the Loyalists in their black t-shirts without it ruining the red effect that the Loyalists started?

2. Let's say the Loyalists start a cheer. Then the RCB think, "That's a lame cheer. Listen to THIS!" and then they start something else. Is that really such a far-out idea? If you're not rude enough to actually drown out a Loyalist cheer, what about starting them all yourselves so the other group never gets a chance to start ones they want to do?

Now I don't want to seem victimized or anything, but can you possibly exist right next to the Loyalists without spoiling a lot of what the Loyalists have worked toward? Those are just two examples and I think it kind of summarizes the issue at heart between the two groups. I think that next season if the RCB chooses their own section to sit together this will not be an issue. But for THIS year, how can it NOT be an issue? I'm just curious.

It seems to me that *IF* these things become a problem, it would be reasonable for the RCB members to try to "fit in" a LITTLE BIT (not 100% following the crowd or anything) for the rest of this year, because you chose to sit with us and be with us.

I hope this makes sense. I'm not trying to fight or complain; just curious what your attitude is for the remainder of this year.

If this post causes more fighting, please close the thread because that's not my intention. 🕺

I guess my response to this would be lets address these things if and when they become issues. I'll go back to saying that I think that each group should have a special liason to address exactly these kinds of things if they grow to be concerns. I understand where you are coming from and the spirit your post is intended in, but I don't think that at this point a free-for-all discussion in this forum is a productive way to address things that aren't even problems yet. You know what I mean?

We are not even at the point yet where we have our elected leadership in place. Once we do, we will have a person who is a liason to the Loyalists on our behalf, and I would hope that the Loyalists would have such an individual (or maybe individuals) as well. That is probably the best thing you can do right now as a Loyalist to see that there is a way for issues to be resolved...campaign to get a special person appointed to be the RCB liason from the Loyalists. I honestly believe that if the things you mention or anything else ever become concerns that the best way to resolve them will be through one-on-one diplomacy instead of a forum free-for-all.

I am not discounting your concerns, they may well turn out to be valid. The RCB certainly has a number of issues that we see as potentially being problematic as well. However, I think we have seen that when the two groups try to resolve things en masse via the internet the relationships do not get better, they get worse. They need to be addressed in such a way that no one feels bullied or coerced against their will, and I think the best way to ensure that is by two individuals who have the backing of their respective groups and the respect of the other group working it out one on one.

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

I guess my response to this would be lets address these things if and when they become issues. I'll go back to saying that I think that each group should have a special liason to address exactly these kinds of things if they grow to be concerns. I understand where you are coming from and the spirit your post is intended in, but I don't think that at this point a free-for-all discussion in this forum is a productive way to address things that aren't even problems yet. You know what I mean?

We are not even at the point yet where we have our elected leadership in place. Once we do, we will have a person who is a liason to the Loyalists on our behalf, and I would hope that the Loyalists would have such an individual (or maybe individuals) as well. That is probably the best thing you can do right now as a Loyalist to see that there is a way for issues to be resolved...campaign to get a special person appointed to be the RCB liason from the Loyalists. I honestly believe that if the things you mention or anything else ever become concerns that the best way to resolve them will be through one-on-one diplomacy instead of a forum free-for-all.

I am not discounting your concerns, they may well turn out to be valid. The RCB certainly has a number of issues that we see as potentially being problematic as well. However, I think we have seen that when the two groups try to resolve things en masse via the internet the relationships do not get better, they get worse. They need to be addressed in such a way that no one feels bullied or coerced against their will, and I think the best way to ensure that is by two individuals who have the backing of their respective groups and the respect of the other group working it out one on one.

Nuff said.


I for one haven't seen problems, and know that Glenn and Bardguy coordinate before and during the game, and for now that works great until things get solidified more.

Well put Ska.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Aerick

Nuff said.

I for one haven't seen problems, and know that Glenn and Bardguy coordinate before and during the game, and for now that works great until things get solidified more.


Well put Ska.

I don't know Aerick, I kind of thought that Jules had some legitimate concerns and she was summarily dismissed... but that is my opinion.

After reading some of the posts over on the RCB forum and seeing in some of the posts that they are deliberately trying to provoke the Loyalists. It kind of puts things in a different light for me. I will attempt to elaborate without drawing the ire of Neil. I am not speaking on behalf the Loyalists.

We publicly discuss things on these forums and they have secret meetings and edit posts so that the FO will not see them "talking junk" about the Loyalists!

I will go on record to say that alot of people have bent over backwards to accommodate the RCB while they act all victimized and then mock us... laugh at us, even plot against us in their forums.

I believe that the RCB are deliberately trying to tear apart the Loyalists in some kind of vendetta, or fit of childish jealousy.

I am going on record as saying that I have tried to put things behind us and move on only to have our differences pointed out on a daily basis. I go over and visit the RCB forum and find that they are laughing and mocking and conspiring to take over the loyalist section...(did anyone else see the "Cavalier Corner" comment today...? now if you go read the posts on there forum you will see it was not just TIC after all....

Funny how there is no animosity from them toward the Loyalists yet they make comments like this…

Old Ska wrote:Actually, maybe we are...they can't see the secret stuff, can they?
Maybe the anti-Socialists stuff in the rivalries threads don't make us look too good though.
we may need to lock some of that stuff down
I don't know how good it would look if the FO walks in here and we are talking junk about the Loyalists(I wrote the real version but thanks to Ska, we don't ever have to see it again)
More karma for you dude.

That is not all they have said, trust me.



It is funny how they can call us socialists, elitist and oppressive when we discuss everything in an open forum with no need to “lock things down” or hide anything.

Alot of Loyalists have busted their backsides building this group and making it work...

Now some childish little "Johny Come Lately's" come around and think they can do a better job... Good go do it... take with you whoever wants to go but don't be so childish about it, you don't need to make a big show of it all, or try to show us all how clever you are.... "Just go"



I thought we were making real headway with certain members but I suppose it was all a big joke after all. I mean I extended an olive branch… I helped them to get in touch with the right people to get media credentials.
I let them use my photos on their page. This is how I get repaid… with mocking and deliberate hatefulness.

RCB … I publicly give you notice that I revoke your right to use my photographs on your website. If you don’t remove all of my photographs and/or links to my photographs and webpage immediately, my lawyer will be in touch.



I may get a warning for this but I will take the chance because I am not attacking anyone specifically… I am merely making a public record of their attempts to make us all look like fools.

I find all of this patently offensive…. I will go on record one last time and say publicly;

I do not speak for the Loyalists or anyone on this forum other than myself when I say… I have no further business with RCB or anyone associated with them.

If I have any of your members’ things on my website I will remove it tonight.
Please heed the warning about my intellectual property. Thank you.

If you don’t believe me have a look for yourself… http://www.cavaliersbrigade.com/brigade/index.php

But hurry cos as soon as this is posted it will either be deleted or the threads will be edited…

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by Deuce

I don't know Aerick, I kind of thought that Jules had some legitimate concerns and she was summarily dismissed... but that is my opinion.

After reading some of the posts over on the RCB forum and seeing in some of the posts that they are deliberately trying to provoke the Loyalists. It kind of puts things in a different light for me. I will attempt to elaborate without drawing the ire of Neil. I am not speaking on behalf the Loyalists.

We publicly discuss things on these forums and they have secret meetings and edit posts so that the FO will not see them "talking junk" about the Loyalists!

I will go on record to say that alot of people have bent over backwards to accommodate the RCB while they act all victimized and then mock us... laugh at us, even plot against us in their forums.

I believe that the RCB are deliberately trying to tear apart the Loyalists in some kind of vendetta, or fit of childish jealousy.

I am going on record as saying that I have tried to put things behind us and move on only to have our differences pointed out on a daily basis. I go over and visit the RCB forum and find that they are laughing and mocking and conspiring to take over the loyalist section...(did anyone else see the "Cavalier Corner" comment today...? now if you go read the posts on there forum you will see it was not just TIC after all....

Funny how there is no animosity from them toward the Loyalists yet they make comments like this…




That is not all they have said, trust me.



It is funny how they can call us socialists, elitist and oppressive when we discuss everything in an open forum with no need to “lock things down” or hide anything.

Alot of Loyalists have busted their backsides building this group and making it work...

Now some childish little "Johny Come Lately's" come around and think they can do a better job... Good go do it... take with you whoever wants to go but don't be so childish about it, you don't need to make a big show of it all, or try to show us all how clever you are.... "Just go"



I thought we were making real headway with certain members but I suppose it was all a big joke after all. I mean I extended an olive branch… I helped them to get in touch with the right people to get media credentials.
I let them use my photos on their page. This is how I get repaid… with mocking and deliberate hatefulness.

RCB … I publicly give you notice that I revoke your right to use my photographs on your website. If you don’t remove all of my photographs and/or links to my photographs and webpage immediately, my lawyer will be in touch.



I may get a warning for this but I will take the chance because I am not attacking anyone specifically… I am merely making a public record of their attempts to make us all look like fools.

I find all of this patently offensive…. I will go on record one last time and say publicly;

I do not speak for the Loyalists or anyone on this forum other than myself when I say… I have no further business with RCB or anyone associated with them.

If I have any of your members’ things on my website I will remove it tonight.
Please heed the warning about my intellectual property. Thank you.

If you don’t believe me have a look for yourself… http://www.cavaliersbrigade.com/brigade/index.php

But hurry cos as soon as this is posted it will either be deleted or the threads will be edited…

With all due respect to one of the Loyalist greats, I've seen the posts, and perhaps they have said some things as individual members of a group that were hateful towards the Loyalists, but as an official entity, I doubt they hold that attitude towards the Loyalists. I'm not sure they can afford to - at least in this point of their infancy, and being seated next to the Loyalists section. Perhaps when they become more official, and we have to coordinate with them in a more official manner, and perhaps if/when they move to a different section of the stadium, we may see if they have different "colors". You can obviously choose to take whatever position you like, and I respect your decision based on the content, or assumed content on their forums, and am glad you included the fact that your position isn't official in any way.

Believe you me, if indeed those are their true colors, I'll be right next to you in defending the Loyalists cause against rivals! Who knows, perhaps in a few weeks I'll be regretting my words, and hailing you as a prophet of sorts - able to see good from evil - but I hope not. I have to believe that RCB has good intentions at their core.

[Stucki]

I was under the impression that everything was going to be okay after RCB was outed. The tone on the forums was much more postive and the negative personal attacks had ceased.

I understand that the founding members of RCB felt like they were backed into a corner and forced into revealing themselves before they were fully ready. Fine, however I would like to point out to them that many members of the Loyalists felt the same way because of the secretive and hostile way that was carried out. I have repeatedly seen the statement in one form or another that there is disbelief that the Loyalists were so hostile to the formation of another supporters group. The Loyalists from what I can determine are not hostile to the formation of another supporters group, in fact Barra Brava was also loosely organized before the season started.

What the Loyalists, from my perception, have been hostile to is the way which that organization went down. RCB could have, and should have been formed without repeated personal attacks on the forum by RCB on assorted Loyalists. More disturbing was the condescending way that some members of RCB would suggest to people who were/are bothered to put the person on the ignore list. Sure that would work, but some viewers of the forum either have no stake in any Loyalist/RCB petty squabble, or have an open enough mind that they don't want to automatically discount anyone.

It is unfortunate that it seems that some people don't seem to want a peaceful co-existence of multiple supporters groups. It is also unfortunate that people don't recognize the possibility of mulitple opinions on a variety of issues.

The majority of the membership of both RCB and The Loyalists are completely blameless in the alleged conflict between the groups. The evidence of that is how well the two groups, plus others, worked together during the last game against the Metros.

This cooperation should be proof that the two groups, plus any others that come along, should be able to exist peacefully. It is unfortunate that some still feel it necessary to act as though a fissure is necessary.

Once again I am going to remind everyone that not one of us is bigger than any supporters group, and no individual or supporters group is bigger than the club.

This is supposed to be about Real Salt Lake. I remind everyone of the chorus of one of our most popular chants, We all cheer for Real Salt Lake!

Here's hoping to a more harmonius existence of dozens of supporters groups with hundreds of members each.

[fuegote]

I will take down your photos, but realize this, nothing has changed since our last conversation. NOthing. I haven't deleated anything since we drove to practice together, neither has anyone else. The whole reason we went available was so everyone can see our forum.

do we have our meeting thread, you better believe it. Why? because we are still getting everything organized.

Believe what you believe deuce, but

I thought we were making real headway with certain members but I suppose it was all a big joke after all.

this is not true, assume what you must without coming to me, that's fine.

Nothing on the board will be deleated, it's open for all to read, it's been there since friday when we opened up the forum to people here.

do we have a "secret" place? Again, I make it public record, we have a secret place where we are still putting our organization together, just like there was a place for the loyalists to get their act together. why do we do it online, becuase we're all in the 25-40 range working jobs, lucky to be at a computer so we can get things done throughout the day.

Did we have discussions about the "socialists." yes, we had the site back up before greivences were aired and things discussed. remember, we were still being attacked from the weekend. the socialist in your quote, was just me being funny with word censors, trying to show ska what the forum can do. That hasn't been up since last wednesday.

Don't we have to make the minutes known once everything is put into place, yup.

Again, I thought we've made significant strides, but here we go again. Again, I speak for myself, not as a representative of the RCB. Read into it what you must, please think they're pulling the wool over my eyes as well.

I'll take your photos down. you have your photos back.

Forums are amazing places where assumptions are made to be fact before anyone asks anyone else.

Neil, this is probably my last post here, it seems I can't post here without this kind of tat coming out once every week or every two weeks. It seems if you're not with us, you're against us is the attitude we keep getting. I'm not playing the victom, i'm sick of this argument wasting so much time of my life.

Loyal1, do not come to my house to discuss this. I do not want to talk about this anymore. I'm going to enjoy the rest of the matches, and yell my ars off. I'm still a supporter of RSL, but I cannot come here, see another attack and waste so much time defending myself.

I'm a good man, and all i get are assumptions made about me and my character.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Aerick

With all due respect to one of the Loyalist greats, I've seen the posts, and perhaps they have said some things as individual members of a group that were hateful towards the Loyalists, but as an official entity, I doubt they hold that attitude towards the Loyalists. I'm not sure they can afford to - at least in this point of their infancy, and being seated next to the Loyalists section. Perhaps when they become more official, and we have to coordinate with them in a more official manner, and perhaps if/when they move to a different section of the stadium, we may see if they have different "colors". You can obviously choose to take whatever position you like, and I respect your decision based on the content, or assumed content on their forums, and am glad you included the fact that your position isn't official in any way.

Believe you me, if indeed those are their true colors, I'll be right next to you in defending the Loyalists cause against rivals! Who knows, perhaps in a few weeks I'll be regretting my words, and hailing you as a prophet of sorts - able to see good from evil - but I hope not. I have to believe that RCB has good intentions at their core.

Thanks for your response Aerick.
I am taking the position I have outlined below because i have had many dealings with "RCB leadership" both privately and publically.
I took great offense to posts on the other forum, that may or may not still be there.

I did see posts on the original forum as well, before that was "locked down" and the core RCB may not feel that way but the core RCB were the only ones posting back then...

Alot has transpired in the past few weeks... much "drama" as it has been described by others.
I have taken a public stance in the past and I will continue to maintain that I am acting in the best interest of this forum.

I have made a personal statement and i have not solicited support from any of our members neither Loyalist or non-Loyalist.

I will stand by my statements and I will hope that I am dead wrong. However evidence points to the contrary.

That is pretty much all i have to say about it.

[Hiddnfox]

I love everybody, despite race, religion, political affiliation (well, maybe not that one) and even whether or not you believe that the pastry hats on Fiji should be red or blue (or green like God says) <MUCHO rep for a week if anyone can tell me where that last one is from. 1 hint. from a loooong lost mining ship>

[fuegote]

HIt ctrl f5 and refresh your browsers, the photos are off the site. (all six from the intro because that's all i've used).