Eddie Pope

[DadOf8]

I do a lot of work with a crew in London. A few days ago we were discussing football (soccer) and Eddie Pope's name came up. He said that Eddie Pope was probably the best American player he knows of. I wasn't even aware that Eddie Pope was on the Real Salt Lake roster at that time. When I found out, I told my co-worker in London about this and he was quite impressed. He said, however, that once a player is over 30 he's past his prime. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does with Real. Also, in your opinion, how does the MLS compare to other leagues around the world. I know Brazil, England, and Italy have quite impressive professional leagues. Does the rest of the world view the MLS kind of the same way we Americans view professional basketball in Europe. By that, I mean do they consider us to be 2nd rate?

[Hiddnfox]

yes, to all your questions

[SoccerPrime]

Yes Europeans see MLS as 2nd rate. But I believe their opinion is rising of MLS. I like it when I hear certain Euro players are using "I'll go to MLS if you don't give me a raise" as bait.
Plus with MLS building the US national team, and how it has risen within the top ten in the world, internationally they are noticing MLS.

Also to respond to your other question, most soccer players over 30 are considered in their twilight years. MLS seems to be a little older than other leagues, but its rapidly getting younger. Pope has enough in the tank for at least another year or two. Hopefully all at SLC.

[Rover]

Originally Posted by DadOf8

He said, however, that once a player is over 30 he's past his prime. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does with Real. Also, in your opinion, how does the MLS compare to other leagues around the world. I know Brazil, England, and Italy have quite impressive professional leagues. Does the rest of the world view the MLS kind of the same way we Americans view professional basketball in Europe. By that, I mean do they consider us to be 2nd rate?

Great questions! I'll give you my take, and I'm sure others will chime in too.

First, in the past a 30+ player was considered over the hill. Certainly in the international game (national teams as opposed to club) it's so fast and physical that it really is a game for the young. But these days, with athletes taking better care of themselves, better training, nutrition, and all that, productive careers can extend up to 40. The only catch is even if they're still productive on the field, most soccer players over 35 seem to be injured all the time. That's what usually ends careers. For a guy like Eddie Pope, who is a great professional who trains meticulously, a career can easily stretch to his fortieth birthday.

Second, MLS is very definitely considered second rate. But it's still in good company, considering it's only ten years old. Remember also that there is not one top league in the world--no NBA, NFL, NHL, or MLB dominance of the sport. Although it's a great way to start an argument, I'd say the top four are in Italy (Serie A), Spain (La Liga), England (Premier League), and Germany (Bundesliga 1). That's where most of the top players from around the world play, and where the big money is.

Next I'd put leagues of France, The Netherlands, Brazil, Argentina, and Mexico. Following that group I'd put MLS, the J League in Japan, Portugal, and a number of South American leagues like Chile, Uruguay, etc, although only MLS is truly rising. Some would place MLS in the second group, but until the money gets better for players I don't think so.

So there's one fan's opinion.

Oh, and just to clarify, it's "MLS" and not "the MLS." I don't blame anyone for throwing in the definite article--announcers do it all the time. But technically, it should be just "MLS." If anyone is bored enough to want further explanation, I can give it.

[AreliusII]

Originally Posted by Rover

I'd say the top four are in Italy (Serie A), Spain (La Liga), England (Premier League), and Germany (Bundesliga 1). That's where most of the top players from around the world play, and where the big money is.

Next I'd put leagues of France, The Netherlands, Brazil, Argentina, and Mexico. Following that group I'd put MLS, the J League in Japan, Portugal, and a number of South American leagues like Chile, Uruguay, etc, although only MLS is truly rising. Some would place MLS in the second group, but until the money gets better for players I don't think so.

But Rover, the big question is: what is the order of the top four leagues??

Spanish and Italian football is more technical and artistic, but noone can match the pace and excitement of the Premier League, the birthplace of modern football (no bias here...). The value one places on the technical aspects of the game versus the sheer pace and exuberance is likely to sway one to rank one of the top 3 over the others. Although at times I am in the mood for Calcio or La Liga futbol more than English football (unless, of course, ManU is playing!), my order generally would be as follows:

Premier League
Serie A
La Liga
Bundesliga

Ligue 1
Brazil
Argentina
Holland
Portugal
Mexico

Uruguay
Scotland
Chile
J-League
MLS

As in any ranking, there is bound to be deficiencies in the analysis and criteria used.

One could argue that the main reason football in England, Italy, Spain and Germany is so good is because of the extensive financial investment in football clubs in those countries and the best world footballers follow the money, which in turn, raises the level of play in those leagues.

Ligue 1 has the benefit of being in Europe and benefitting geographically from being able to export players readily to nearby leagues. That said, there is plenty of home grown talent in the league and it has more money than the leagues that follow on my ranking.

Certainly there are more Brazilian footballers abroad than any other nationality. And it can be argued that, in general, the talent of Brazilian footballers surpasses that of other countries. The depth of Brazilian football is astounding. The only reason Brazilian football doesn't rank higher is because of the money (lack of investment).

I think Argentine and Dutch football leagues are quite comparable, but I put Argentina ahead of Holland simply because I think Argentina exports a greater amount of talent as well as a greater degree of talent. Additionally, I think there is not as much disparity throughout the Argentine League as there is in the Eredivisie. In any given year, you can usually predict that Ajax, PSV or Feyenoord will take the title, but in Argentina its not as disparate as it once was. Traditionally, Boca and River have dominated but recently, you have other clubs with as good a chance.

Portugal suffers from the same phenomenon as Holland in terms of a couple of clubs dominating...

I slipped Scotland in ahead of Chile because they have good football however I can't think of a time when a club other than Rangers or Celtic won the title. Scotland basically only has two teams worthy of note in its league.

Certainly there is good football in countries not on this list, especially Turkey, Greece and other countries in that region... Likewise, certainly there are many countries whose football is worse than the MLS not because a lack of popularity of the sport but because of a lack of money.

I'm tempted to put Chile, Uruguay, Portugual ahead of MLS and J-League because of their history, depth of talent and tradition. Uruguay has an incredible array of talent at the club level that they haven't been able to capitalize on at the national team level because of the extreme disorganization of their soccer federation.

There are some very interesting parallels between MLS and J-League. Both started approximately the same time and both are growing very fast. Both are providing greater depth for their national teams.

In many respects, the J-League has outdone MLS in that they already have a first and second division with the promotion and relegation system in place. I wish MLS had this but it will be years before we get our act together. The J-League now boasts 18 sides. It has been quite successful in awakening the Japanese's interest in the sport.

Some successful Japanese footballers have found success abroad. One of my favorite is Hidetoshi Nakata who has played with several Serie A sides.

There is a lot MLS could learn from J-League.

An alternative way of viewing the different leagues (and level of football), particularly in Europe and South America is to analyze the teams that historically qualify for (and make it to the final of) the Champions League and the Copa Libertadores.

One could do the same for the European Championships (at the national team level) as well as the Copa America.

And taking it to the next level, one can analyze the countries that have won the World Cup and extrapolate from that as well. The interesting thing about this study at that level is that even though Brazilian football doesn't have a lot of money at the club level, they have taken the World Cup 5 times. That fact alone supports my premise above.

By looking at the history of World Cup winners as well as the strength of the different FIFA confederations, it is evident that European and South American football dominates at the national team level.

My feeling is that (in addition to the U.S.), the area where football has the greatest potential for growth is Asia... Africa has talent but I think there is more money in Asia to promote it.

[Rover]

Wow. That's quite an analysis. I agree with just about everything on specifics and everything on your general take. Only three notes:

1. I'd put Serie A above the Premiership, but that's purely a matter of taste, as you've noted. Otherwise I have no argument at all with your rankings.

2. Ligue 1 is good, but a good case could be made that the best players in the league come from Africa, not France. Nothing wrong with that--it's helped out the African national teams tremendously and covered Ligue 1 from its loss of French players to the Big 4 leagues (OK, Big 3--not too many Frenchmen in the Bundesliga). So I'd say the homegrown talent is strong, but Ligue 1 still needs to bring in less expensive foreign players to keep the level of play high. I admit that I do enjoy watching Ligue 1, since the soccer is entertaining and intense, even if not up to Premiership level.

3. I think MLS is now on par with or better than the J League. The J has marketed very well, and has just about taken over from baseball in the popularity contest in Japan. It's a very well run league, and their support is phenomenal. Their supporters are some of the best organized in the world, and put on a show that MLS can only envy at the moment.

But the J League had a three year head start on MLS, and was part of the sales pitch to land a World Cup so it received losts of official backing. With 18 clubs (plus 12 in the second division) it has evolved more quickly in some ways but I would say that the level of play is stagnant as compared to MLS. We'll be well past them in five years if our current growth continues, especially since we augment homegrown talent with the best of the Caribbean and a good portion of the best Central American players. The J League can't duplicate that. That said, the Japanese have done very well with their league and it has helped their national program as much as MLS has helped the USMNT.

Good post.

[AreliusII]

Originally Posted by Rover

We'll be well past them in five years if our current growth continues,

Especially after we join with the Mexican soccer league...

[Rover]

Originally Posted by AreliusII

Especially after we join with the Mexican soccer league...

I was thinking the Premiership, Western Division . . .

[Deuce]

From the Tribune today
Pope makes unexpected appearance

[Aero]

Well, that kind of sucks that he won't be playing in Mexico, but it's good for RSL. I'm glad his injury wasn't that serious.