Coaches don't win games?!?!?!

[clarette]

That's very nice of you, Deuce, but let's get back to the real issue at hand here -- what dumbasses we all are!

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

If Ellinger is to go, and IF they discover that he was the major problem, you still won't hear anyone on the team say he was 100% of the problem.

I don't think anyone has really said that (I know I don't feel that way, and I hope I haven't said that). The team is a collective entity and the coach is an important part of that team. That being said, no one person can really be 100% at fault for the team's failures. Some of the fault lies with players, some with owners and managers, and some with the coaching staff.

Many of us feel that our team is more talented than last year and therefore should be doing BETTER than last year, instead of worse. One of the coach's responsibilities is to help his team BECOME a team, find the team's strengths and use them, and identify the team's weaknesses and work on them. For many of us, Ellinger has failed to do this effectively. If someone on the team does not buy into Ellinger's strategy, it will show on the field. Ellinger has to communicate, convince, and lead his team to success. He is ultimately responsible for his team's performance. He is like the captain of a ship. He is ultimately responsible for the fitness (in all regards) of his organization, regardless of how much he is actually at fault.

Anyone disagree with that?

⚽ Geoff
-----------------------
REGULATORS! Mount up!
Ellinger: Not 100% at fault, but 100% responsible for team on field...

[knowwonnose]

Originally Posted by Dadof3

Though I completely and totally disagree with Knowwonnose re how important coaching is to success in a league where the talent is relatively even...I do agree that responses of "you are dumb" do not add to the conversation...my goal on these boards is to learn more about the sport I love, while helping others understand the sport better by sharing my opinions (which may or may not be of value)...Calling someone dumb does not add to their soccer knowledge...pointing out that their opinion completely underestimates the importance of having a quality coach to give a team direction and stability does.

I agree with you about the purpose of these boards. I'd just like to know when my opinions misses the mark, how it misses the mark. Obviously, I didn't intend to characterize the exact words. It's called using hyperbole to emphasize the point. I guess I forget that some people take things too literally to not be able to discern the difference.

In this case, no one has made a clear argument that says that any player can walk off the field and rightly say, "it was the coach's fault that I wasn't better." Especially since fitness was his most glaring complaint as I read the article.

[knowwonnose]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I don't think anyone has really said that (I know I don't feel that way, and I hope I haven't said that). The team is a collective entity and the coach is an important part of that team. That being said, no one person can really be 100% at fault for the team's failures. Some of the fault lies with players, some with owners and managers, and some with the coaching staff.

Many of us feel that our team is more talented than last year and therefore should be doing BETTER than last year, instead of worse. One of the coach's responsibilities is to help his team BECOME a team, find the team's strengths and use them, and identify the team's weaknesses and work on them. For many of us, Ellinger has failed to do this effectively. If someone on the team does not buy into Ellinger's strategy, it will show on the field. Ellinger has to communicate, convince, and lead his team to success. He is ultimately responsible for his team's performance. He is like the captain of a ship. He is ultimately responsible for the fitness (in all regards) of his organization, regardless of how much he is actually at fault.

Anyone disagree with that?

⚽ Geoff
-----------------------
REGULATORS! Mount up!
Ellinger: Not 100% at fault, but 100% responsible for team on field...

I don't dissagree with your analysis of RSL as a whole. I symply disagree with the article where a team captain did put 100% blam on the coach and the fact that he raised fitness as one of the problems shows that he wasn't doing any more to encourage his mates to go beyond the coach's requirements. As a professional, that is always an options.

Is the coach to blame. Yes! Is he 100% to blame. Never! I just think it is sour grapes for a player to react in this manner. That was my point from the begining.

If anything, I'd say the point I'm making is that RSL's players have, and I think will no matter what, taken the high road. Not to mention, they have some blame in the way they've played, and they know it.

[Burninator]

When I think of good coaches, I think of the movie Miracle and the part where Coach Herb Brooks (Kurt Russell) is running his boys ragged after an ugly win:

[making his team do sprints after a lackluster game] "You keep playing this way, you won't beat anybody who's even good, let alone great! You wanna make this team? Then you better start playing at a level that's gonna FORCE ME to keep you here! AGAIN!" (www.imdb.com)

[knowwonnose]

Originally Posted by Burninator

When I think of good coaches, I think of the movie Miracle and the part where Coach Herb Brooks (Kurt Russell) is running his boys ragged after an ugly win:

[making his team do sprints after a lackluster game] "You keep playing this way, you won't beat anybody who's even good, let alone great! You wanna make this team? Then you better start playing at a level that's gonna FORCE ME to keep you here! AGAIN!" (www.imdb.com)

good movie, but wasn't as good as the real thing. And I don't even like hockey. We'd all like to see that kind of results from our coach.

[soccerman]

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

This is an addendum to a prior post quoting the same passage:

After thinking about this since last night, I think I need to add that these kinds of comments are dumbfounding to me. Why would some one say something like this? It doesn't add to the discussion at all. It isn't supported with any reason.

The only two answers I can come up with are (a) the commentator doesn't have enough knowledge on the subject to respond with reason; (b) the commentator is totally arrogant and feel he/she is filled with all knowledge; (c) a combination of a and b.

soccerman, I demand that you give a reason that you think players taking some responsibility for the outcome of games is the dumbest thing you've ever hear. Without reason, I think you've shown who the less intelligent is.

Another thought, Why take your frustrations out on me? I wasn't attacking anyone. I wasn't against anyone. The post I replied to had no indication of "side" of an issue. I think fans are getting so frustrated that they feel anytime someone even give an once of respect to whatever they feel is RSL's problem that they must shoot it down. I have supported Ellinger in the past, but I've also commented recently that I can side with the anti-Ellinger position with more satisfaction now. Moreover, the post that soccerman bashes has nothing to do with Ellinger and I made it clear that I wasn't speaking to the RSL situation.

Final note: I joined this board because another one I was on got too caustic in the same sorts of situations. I'm sad to see that it isn't the board but the Utah fans that have become so caustic. I hope that the real core of RSL fans are more like the Montgjules out there that are willing to disagree without lambasting others.

I stand corrected. THIS is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board. You're on a roll captain and I demand that you continue it. Well the bell just rang to end 4th period so I'm going to lunch.

[knowwonnose]

Originally Posted by soccerman

I stand corrected. THIS is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board. You're on a roll captain and I demand that you continue it. Well the bell just rang to end 4th period so I'm going to lunch.

Say hello to you're shop teacher for me. :bucko:

[prk166]

Originally Posted by clarette

That's very nice of you, Deuce, but let's get back to the real issue at hand here -- what dumbasses we all are!

speak for yourself. :coolio: