England's under-achievement

AreliusII · 09-19-2005, 02:34 PM

http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=87259&progr=1

Scholesy · 09-20-2005, 07:25 AM

What a dreadful article … here’s my response to South African drivel …

Whilst I agree with some of what is said I think this is a very poorly thought out article and not well written. Just because he can name a bunch of players and throw out a few criticisms doesn't mean he's right. For instance...

'English football must learn to fully utilize their cosmopolitan make-up which offers an abundant selection of talented players. Learn to start Beckham on the bench and the rest will beautifully unfold en route to Germany 2006. It's about time that English players be encouraged to hone their ball handling skills in La Liga, Serie A, Eredivisie and La Championat. Hopefully once they make the grade in these leagues they can go on playing for more than a year.'

Erm ... Gazza went to Lazio (serie A) and held a first tam place and still couldn't control his drinking, womanizing or parting habits that is what killed his career, nothing else. He was a regular in the England squad and the various managers were criticized for 'automatically' starting him ahead of other players without drinking problems that affected their game. McManaman went to Real Madrid and was a permanent fixture there for a while and was taken there because of his 'exceptional handling abilities' according to the coaches he played for. Liverpool was better off without him and his attitude as it turned out. He came back with his tail between his legs and ended up at Man city where he was a dreadful flop for poor old Keegan, yeah learning 'great skills' in Europe did well for Stevies’ career. Owen ... well we all know the story, 13 goals in one season off the bench, scored more per game than any other player.... including Zidane, and all the Brazilians (who by the way say he is the best player they know). Beckham went to Real Madrid and they obviously think enough of him to start him every game, without fail, in front of everyone else they could choose from. Show me a better set piece guy in the world.

Now don't get me wrong, I agree that there is a crisis with the England national squad but it is with the coach not the talented pool of players to choose from or the English leagues which most informed people would say is the best in the world, it has certainly been the most successful.

'It is evident that Beckham doesn't have the skills of Figo, Ronaldinho, Zidane and Makelele.'

Really? I wonder why they keep him then, oh and who is it that generally passes the ball to them for their wonderful and yes stunning runs?

As for the genius position of the rest of Europe...

Ok well ok France won it in 98 and may or may not qualify for 2006 yet, they have won it once and top 4 three times. Interesting that Henry plays in England, gosh I bet he loses his skills by the bucket load playing in England? In fact of the 98 ""That is the reason for France's strengths at the moment. Most of our players play abroad." world cup winning squad 7 of them played in ... England, according to Frank LeBeouf Spain ... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... yeah they've done great they have come in the top 4 once back in 1950, and haven't won Euro since 1962, yeah, they are full of winners. Germany, now there is a nation that doe not conjure up images of fancy footwork, dazzling displays of dashing forwards and inspiring midfielders ... won it 3 times and placed top 4 no less than ... 7 times, 4 times as runners up. Hmmmm ....... his arguments don't really stand up to the tests of fact do they.

Now Italy has done well, lessons for certain can be learned there, interestingly there is a very strong representation of Italian players in the EPL ... hmmm ... what a dreadful place to play.

Now granted England have not won the World Cup since 1966, no one is more disappointed than the English, and have only finished top 4 once but have finished top 8 7 times. There are things to fix no question, but most of this guy’s opinion is very poorly thought out and written.

His writings sound like the usual bitter writings of an ex-colony hack who doesn't really know football. But obviously I am mistaken since he comes from the great footballing nation of ... South Africa, well known for producing ... erm.... erm.... hmmm.... can't quite nail it down ... erm .... no, can't quite think of a soccer player from South Africa, Cricket yes, Rugby yes, football ... errrm ... nope, not a one. Did they even get close to qualifying for 2006 Germany? Oh that's right, they'll qualify for 2010 ... only because they are hosting it as a pity gesture from FIFA in the hopes that some time soon football will develop in that nation. Yessiree, glad to hear from the South African contingent.... he shows why they haven't a clue. Of course maybe one day they will legitimately make it to a world cup, maybe win it or have a league worthy of discussing.

Come to think of it maybe one day they'll produce a writer worth discussing?

Now that's not to say that I'm not worried about our national side, I am, but to have legitimate concerns mushed up amongst this garbage is annoying.

AreliusII · 09-20-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

Now don't get me wrong, I agree that there is a crisis with the England national squad but it is with the coach not the talented pool of players to choose from.

Scholesy: I'm interested in your take on Eriksson. Do you really believe he is a problem? If, in fact, he is the problem, why do the players so vehemently stand up for him?

prk166 · 09-20-2005, 09:01 AM

To step back from Sven, Scholesy's frustration stems from that writers like to claim that going overseas / playing in anther league is some sort of magical fix to make players better. It isn't in and of itself, especially on a case by case basis. And that they play it off as that simple isn't acceptable. On the other hand, over the long run, the national team will do better with a variety of players exposed to a variety of tactics. That is, unless the England NT is going to stick to the 4-5-1. Then you may as well count on 1/2 of Everton playing for the nats since they've perfected that horrible scheme. 🙂

Scholesy · 09-21-2005, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prk166

To step back from Sven, Scholesy's frustration stems from that writers like to claim that going overseas / playing in anther league is some sort of magical fix to make players better. It isn't in and of itself, especially on a case by case basis. And that they play it off as that simple isn't acceptable. On the other hand, over the long run, the national team will do better with a variety of players exposed to a variety of tactics. That is, unless the England NT is going to stick to the 4-5-1. Then you may as well count on 1/2 of Everton playing for the nats since they've perfected that horrible scheme. 🙂

Yeah, what you said. I just had to rant a little .. Ok ... a lot.

I agree though, it is just too easy to say 'move everyone to other countries', just so silly. I agree that playing with differing nationalities makes all the difference in terms of growth but it isn't the absolute answer.

Scholesy · 09-21-2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusII

Scholesy: I'm interested in your take on Eriksson. Do you really believe he is a problem? If, in fact, he is the problem, why do the players so vehemently stand up for him?

I think he is a huge part of the problem, he has alienated some key players that 'retired'. I think that the mood on the inside has changed, it's not as open as it was. At the same time there are players who thrive too much on their own publicity and have made the mistake of believing the hype. That is not to say that they aren't genius players and very talented, but I think that the hype affects the way the mind set is when you approach a game, we definately approach games differently now. There seems to be a general lack of pride in playing for the flag and country and that is unusual for English players. Bottom line is I think we have scraped through on a few occassions and ultimately it is the responsibility of the manager to motivate, teach, reign in and get the best out of the players, I don't think Sven has done that, he is too much of a self celebrity, he gets paid more than any England manager ever has and I think that hurts the team somehow. He isn't English, I used to say who cares, now I say that he doesn't have the best interests of England at heart, he's not malicious, he just doesn't have it in him.

Just my opinion.

AreliusII · 09-21-2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

I think he is a huge part of the problem, he has alienated some key players that 'retired'. .

i.e., your cousin?

[/QUOTE]He isn't English, I used to say who cares, now I say that he doesn't have the best interests of England at heart, he's not malicious, he just doesn't have it in him.QUOTE]

This article led me to believe that the England manager needed to be English. Can you clarify?
http://realsaltlake.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2375